Ein ny EU-debatt?
Landsmøtet i Venstre haldt på partiet sitt nei til EU, med 114 mot 102 stemmer i følge diverse rapportar på Twitter og media (VG og Dagbladet).
EU-saka er som alle veit vanskeleg for Venstre. Partiet er avhengig av velgjarar med både klåre ja- og nei-standpunkt. Sponheim forsøker difor ein manøver der partiet held på sitt nei-standpunkt, samstundes som han sender klåre signal til ja-sjiktet om at han eigentleg er som dei. Eg trur ikkje partiet vinn så mykje på det, men dei kan kanskje unngå å tape på det. Det verkar ikkje som dei blir framstilt som taktiske heller, berre forvirra. Så kan ein jo diskutere kva som er verst.
Uansett har det viktigaste for norsk EU-debatt i dag skjedd på Island. Der har venstresidsa vunne valet. I følge rapportar får sosialdemokratane om lag 30% og SV sitt søsterparti (dei Venstregrøne) om lag 22%. Dei vil med det få fleirtal i parlamentet, og etter alt å døme halde fram i regjering. Det er interessant kva som skjer med EU-saka i ein slik situasjon. Som i Noreg er sosialdemokratane og venstresida usamde om EU-spørsmålet.
Med det valresultatat som ligg, tydar mykje på at dei vil bli samde om å søke for så å legge ut spørsmålet til ei folkerøysting. Den viktigaste grunnen til at Vg kan gå med på det er at det uansett er eit fleirtal i parlamentet for, og at det eksisterer ein annan mogeleg koalisjon som sosialdemokratane kan søke mot (med to mindre ja-parti i sentrum). Det er imidlertid ikkje avgjort med det. I vinter var det stort ja-fleirtal på Island, opp mot 70%. Den siste målinga eg såg var jamn, med om lag 45% ja.
Kva får dette å seie for den norske debatten? Truleg ikkje så mykje, men det ville vere dumt å avskrive det. Det vil få mykje merksemd om Isalnd søker og eventuelt seier ja. Det kan også skape ein ny debatt, ikkje minst i kombinasjon med økonomiske nedgangstider. Dei siste tiåra har det vore i økonomisk utrygge tider det har vore mogeleg å skape noko særleg oppslutning om EU i Noreg.
Det er særleg to grunnar til at eg trur det norske nei’et er meir rotfesta no enn i 1994. For det første så er det no allmenn semje om at Noreg har klart seg og vil klare seg godt økonomisk utanfor EU. I 1994 var trugsmål om industridød, tap av arbeidsplassar og økonomiske problem eit viktig ja-argument. No skal det utruleg mykje til å få folk til å tru på noko liknande.
For det andre (og viktigast for meg og mange andre på venstresida trur eg, eg trudde ikkje på skrmeslane i 94 heller) meiner eg internasjonaliseringa av politikken har styrka argumentet om Noregs sjølvstendig rolle i utanrikspolitikken. Utviklinga dei siste 15 åra viser at handel, miljøspørsmål, økonoiske reguleringar, forsking og andre felt vert internasjonalisert i tillegg til den tradisjonelle utanriks- og utviklingspolitikken. Det gjer stadig nye felt der det er viktig med sjølvstendige aktørar som kan gå litt lenger enn minst felles multiplum i EU, og som kan fremme dei forslaga mange i Europa er for men som det ikkje er oppslutning om i EU. Ikkje minst i klimapolitikken vil det vere ei viktig rolle dei neste tiåra. Den bør ikkje Noreg gje frå seg.
Trur du vi får eit Island-sug som skaper ein ny EU-debatt? Kva er i så fall viktig i den debatten?
26 April 2009 kl. 12:57
“Trur du vi får eit Island-sug som skaper ein ny EU-debatt? ”
Nei. Og om debatten kommer, så blir den ikke særlig viktig. Det må skje noe langt mer dramatisk for at EU-spørsmålet skal bli aktuelt på ordentlig.
Som at EØS-avtalen ryker, for eksempel. Truslene om industridød, tap av arbeidsplasser og økonomiske problemer var aldri troverdige så lenge vi ble med i EØS. Norge deltar jo i det indre marked på lik linje med alle EU-land.
Personlig skjønner jeg ikke hvordan det er mulig å være mot EU-medlemskap, men for EØS. Joda, vi klarer oss utmerket utenfor EU: om vi godtar at demokrati og sånn ikke er så veldig viktig….
Det er litt overraskende at du mener internasjonaliseringen styrker argumentene for Norges utenforskap. Internasjonale utfordringer krever internasjonale, forpliktende løsninger. Og det finnes vel knapt noen bedre arena for det enn EU?
Spørsmålet er selvfølgelig om Norge ville ha noen særlig “positiv” innflytelse på EU dersom ble medlem. Som en av verdens største olje-og gassprodusenter er det ikke sikkert vi ville stå på barrikadene for miljøspørsmål. Vår troverdighet på det området er nok uansett overvurdert av en del norske politikere. Og Norge foretrekker enda mer proteksjonisme og landbrukssubsidier enn de fleste EU-land. Så kanskje er det best, både for verden og Norge, at vi står på utsiden uten noe særlig innflytelse i det hele tatt?
26 April 2009 kl. 14:21
[...] ikke at det er riktig av Norge å bli et fullverdig medlem. For meg er blant annet det argumentet Bård Vegard Solhjell peker på, om at vi trenger flere uavhengige stemmer i verden [...]
26 April 2009 kl. 19:57
Veldig enig med Windigstad i at nei-argumentet om at vi har en sterke og tydeligere stemme i miljøspørsmål utenfor EU er ganske dårlig. Sannheten er vel snarer tvert om, utenfor EU har vi kun oljesmurte miljøinitiativ, med EUs hjelp kunne det blitt bedre, større og mer realistiske miljøsatsninger.
…og når du også sier at “Dei siste tiåra har det vore i økonomisk utrygge tider det har vore mogeleg å skape noko særleg oppslutning om EU i Noreg” så demonstrer du på en ypperlig måte hvor lite solidarisk nei-standpunktet i bunn og grunn er.
26 April 2009 kl. 20:45
Du sier at Venstre opprettholdt sitt nei til EU. Egentlig må vel vedtaket tolkes litt for å komme dithen – det sier nærmest bare at Venstre ikke tror det blir en ny EU-debatt, og at det derfor må satses på EØS-avtalen. Hva Venstre skulle mene hvis det likevel blir en ny EU-debatt, framgår ikke av vedtaket.
Forsåvidt tror jeg Venstre har rett i sin teori om at det ikke blir ny EU-debatt nå. Det var et jordskjelv da Danmark og Sverige gikk inn i EU – til sammenlikning vil det ikke ha like stor påvirkning på opinionen om Island skulle gå inn.
For øvrig liker jeg godt Sponheims argumentasjon for EU. Om vi skal gå inn i EU er det ikke av snever egeninteresse, men fordi EU er et godt prosjekt for fred og miljø.
26 April 2009 kl. 21:45
Til Windingstad:
At EØS-avtalen ryker (dersom den gjør det) trenger ikke nødvendigvis bety en ny EU-debatt i Norge. Både Russland og Sveits har bilaterale avtaler med EU, og det er ingen grunn til at Norge ikke også skal kunne få det og at det skal kunne ligge mer i en slik avtale med Norge enn det gjør med de andre to.
Å være med i EØS og ikke EU handler jo nettopp om å ønske økt demokrati. Demokratiet i EU er svakt. I unionen arbeides det for et marked med færrest mulig hindre for handel. Disse to i kombinasjon fører til at det blir tatt mer hensyn til bedriftene som skal handle, enn innbyggernes velferd. Eksempler på dette finner man for eksempel på forbrukerrettområdet. Flere og flere av disse beslutningene blir tatt med 2/3 flertall. Norge vil altså ha liten makt til å sette foten ned (i motsetning til nå hvor vi kan legge ned veto mot direktiver).
Vi har flere internasjonale arenaer enn EU. Hvorfor er akkurat EU spesielt egnet for dette?
27 April 2009 kl. 11:21
Heisann!
Du sier på slutten av ditt innlegg at det er bra at Norge ikke er med i EU blant annet pga. klimapolitikken og at Norge ikke må “gi fra” seg sin rolle til å kunne gå lengre enn EU. Hvorfor har ikke Norge gjort dette da, og brukt denne såkalte ”fantastiske muligheten” vi har med å stå utenfor?
Jeg er veldig skuffet over regjeringens klimapolitikk. EU har jo en langt bedre klimapolitikk enn Norge. Jeg mener det er viktig å se klimapolitikk i en større sammenheng; klimapolitikk har mange sider. Det handler ikke kun om å få flere til å sykle eller å innføre rushtidsavgift. Innovasjon og utviklingen av grønn teknologi er en avgjørende side i klimapolitikken. I EU er Tyskland veldig flinke, spesielt innen vindkraft. UK er ikke så flinke enda, men de har hvertfall satt seg høy mål og forpliktet seg politisk. Samtidig bygger de ut flere og flere vindfarmer. Men i Norge derimot går industrien til UK for å utvikle grønn teknologi fordi regjeringen her ikke har klart å etablere bedre rammebetingelser. Nå skal StatoilHydro bygge vindmøller til havs, og det i UK. Norge taper kampen om å bli ledende innen ny fornybar energi! Og er det en ting Norge har, så er det vind og verdensledende kompetanse på dyphavsteknologi, som igjen kan bli overført til utviklingen av for eksempel offshore vindmøller. SATS PÅ TEKNOLOGI OG INNOVASJON!
Poenget er; vi er milevis fra den klimapolitikken EU fører. Og de medlemsland som ønsker å gå lengre enn minste-fellesmultiplum på dette området har så absolutt mulighet til det. Det er jo derfor Covenants of Mayors ble opprettet; byer som ønsker å gå lengre enn de målene EU selv har satt seg. Det er helt fantastisk! Sammen representerer ordførerne som nå er med OVER 70 millioner mennesker i Europa, inkludert noen hundretusen her i Norge.
En ting som er bra med EU er at norske byer som mener regjeringen er en sinke på for eksempel klimaområdet får mulighet til å “forbipasser” regjeringens politikk og delta i den enda mer ambisiøs klimapolitikken til EU, som både Stavanger og Ålesund gjør ved å delta i Covenants of Mayors.
Mvh
Benedicte=)
1 May 2009 kl. 7:09
Miljøspørsmål er allerede nevnt – så jeg skal ta et annet punkt hvor jeg synes Norge svikter.
Diverse EU-direktiver blir adoptert etter fjernkontroll fra Brussel, noe som underminerer demokratiet.
Norge har ingen påvirkningskraft her, og dette finner jeg bekymringsfullt. Av to årsaker. Den ene er allerede nevnt (ingen påvirkningskraft).
Den andre er at norske politikere tilsynelatende ikke forstår hva enkelte av disse direktivene til fulle dreier seg om. (Dette er ikke personlig ment.)
Som medlemsland holder det at ett land stemmer i mot, og medlemslandene har tilsynelatende større frihet (enn så lenge), enn hva som kommuniseres om at “Norge må implementere…. pga. EØS avtalen…”.
Medlemslandenes politikere får også bedre grunnlag (og erfaring) med arbeide på internationalt nivå (rimeligvis).
Som eksempel kan nevnes datalagrings direktivet. Dette er så viktig at her burde Norge rope et stort NEI.
Det nytter ikke å si NEI-til-EU mens en sier JA_til_alle-EU-direktiver.
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